Guilt and Shame

[BreakFree]

I would like to discuss guilt and shame.
There is lots of information out there and I encourage you do look into it for yourself. Here is a brief summary https://beckylennox.com/2022/08/11/a-di ... -vs-guilt/
Guilt and Shame are often used interchangeably but they are distinctively different.

“Shame is a focus on self, guilt is a focus on behavior. Shame is “I am bad.” Guilt is “I did something bad.” How many of you, if you did something that was hurtful to me, would be willing to say, “I’m sorry. I made a mistake?” How many of you would be willing to say that? Guilt: I’m sorry. I made a mistake. Shame: I’m sorry. I am a mistake.“

Brené Brown

Growing up in CF we were shamed for thinking, having an opinion, living a normal life, missing a meeting, having conections outside the group, listening to music, watching a TV, disobeying the will of the leaders, ect ect the list is endless.
my personal experience is coming out of CF I felt I had much to be ashamed of, I had very low self esteem. However, this was a feeling put on us by the doctrine and leaders. We have nothing to be ashamed of because we were under the mind control and brain washing of CF.

We do however need to rightly express our guilt. Personlly I know I hurt people. My actions directly impacted my friends, my sisiter and others who left CF before I did. It wasn't until I experienced the ex communication myself, did I understand how my actions impacted others. We need to take acountabilty for what we did. Sometimes we can apologies others we can't, it takes wisdom to discern as you don't want to retramatise people.

How to deal with Shame?
Part of my treatment has been to do DBT (again I encourage you to do your own research but here is a start https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/dialect ... herapy-dbt

The pub test is useful to help you think through the following questions. Did I actually do something wrong or was I made to feel like I did something wrong. Ask yourself what would a reasonable person think, A complete stranger looking in on the situation.

I want to end by reiterating that we do not have to be ashamed of the life we lived in CF or leaving. It is a very powerful tool abusers use to keep their victims captive even long after they are removed from the situation. There is no easy solution to processing the shame we have been made to feel but it can be done little by little.

[Helen Pomery]

Thank you for this post Break Free.

I was extremely ill (mentally, emotionally, spiritually and physically) after being excommunicated. My recovery has been a very long process. I am deeply grateful to God for His grace, provision and faithful love. I know He sent many caring people to my aid and above all was His promise that He would never leave me or forsake me.

Sometime after my departure I remember being absolutely and utterly ashamed that I had fallen captive to heresy. I felt so dumb for being fooled by corrupt teaching. I felt guilty that I had taken my innocent, trusting children into such a harmful, abusive group.
I dreaded the thought of the abuse they had suffered.


I faced a whole range of strong emotions , including guilt and shame. I wished I could have time reverse so I could make safer, wiser, more profound choices for the sake of my family. It was an awful time. I didn’t want to see anyone or face others or disclose my story because I was so utterly ashamed.

All I can say looking back at this process, is that I am glad I faced it. There’s so much fear within the process of facing guilt and shame even if we were coerced into those negatives by master manipulators. What I’m trying to testify to, is that even in that deep, dark time… God never left me. He helped me face it, grieve through it, sort out my emotions, receive healing and say sorry to my children for taking them into such a harmful place.

I have often believed I’ve been healed or faced a hurt or processed my pain only to find out around the corner I have something else to face. Perhaps it’s a deeper level of the same hurt, or maybe the wound has reopened or maybe it’s just another aspect of the deep trauma?


Whatever it is, whenever I need to face another level of hurt and pain, I now know I can face it because I’m never alone and never forsaken. He has promised to complete His work in us and by His Grace and Love He will do it. We serve a wonderful Saviour!

[guest]

I so appreciate your honesty, Helen and I am so thrilled to know that God has met you and is keeping you. I am also encouraged by the content from Alistair Begg that you share - he has also been a significant influence on me (for many years now) in helping me understand the truth of the gospel. Your post above made me think of the following song…


Wonderful Merciful Savior -- Dawn Rodgers and Eric Wyse

Verse 1
Wonderful, merciful Savior
Precious Redeemer and Friend
Who would have thought that a Lamb could
Rescue the souls of men,
Oh You rescue the souls of men.

Chorus
You are the One that we praise
You are the One we adore
You give the healing and grace our
Hearts always hunger for,
Oh our hearts always hunger for.

Verse 2
Counselor, Comforter, Keeper
Spirit we long to embrace,
You offered hope when our hearts had
Hopelessly lost the way,
Oh we’d hopelessly lost the way.

Chorus
You are the One that we praise
You are the One we adore
You give the healing and grace our
Hearts always hunger for,
Oh our hearts always hunger for.

Verse 3
Almighty, infinite Father
Faithfully loving Your own.
Here in our weakness You find us
Falling before Your throne,
Oh we’re falling before Your Throne.

Chorus
You are the One that we praise
You are the One we adore
You give the healing and grace our
Hearts always hunger for,
Oh our hearts always hunger for.

[BreakFree]

Thank you Helen.
During my time in Hospital I was faced with a choice. Having been diganosed with PTSD I could continue to face the flash backs and night mares unexpectantly or be led back through (into and out of) my experiences within Christian Fellowship. I was terrified of having to face the memories and experiences again until I realised something. Psalm 23 : 4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.
I was facing a shadow. I had already lived through the experience. While the rod was always taught as a disciplinary action in actual fact a shepherds rod is used for protection of the sheep and to gently guide them in the right direction. A beautiful book: 'A shepherd looks at Psalm 23', explains the imagery of this psalm in a really helpful way
https://koorong.com/product/a-shepherd- ... 0310291428

Another lesson I have learned about PTSD is that you can never fully recover. I have done a lot of work to live a meaningful life but I cannot fully heal from the wounds. I do not say this to be negative rather, connect me to my humanity and others who suffer. There is comfort normalising our pain knowing others are suffering the same way, we are not alone.
https://www.amazon.com.au/Complex-Ptsd-Pete-Walker

[Helen Pomery]

I was terrified of having to face the memories and experiences again until I realised something. Psalm 23 : 4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.

BreakFree

This is a wonderful realisation / revelation / experience of Gods grace!!!

Fear is a terror, but facing it is possible as God walks with us through that valley.

Another most wonderful blessing is that the comfort He gives us is not just for our benefit. The comfort He has given us is meant to be passed on as God opens opportunities to hearts that are wounded and bleeding.

Talk about grace so abounding and free ! It’s an overflowing reality that keeps on ministering.

We have been chosen to minister the healing grace and understanding compassion to all those within and without this destructive group.

Who understands others who are suffering, better than those of us who have received His mercy and grace?

It’s beyond our understanding to see what God is doing through this devastation, BUT we can place our complete faith in Jesus Christ who is our Saviour and Redeemer.


Thank you guest.
The words of that hymn are magnificent.

Isn’t music Gods gift?

[Lillith]

Wonderful posts on this thread, thank you all.
I feel I must recommend the book that BF shared -
cPTSD by Pete Walker. I just finished the audiobook.
I would recommend it for all XCFers!
It’s written for lay people, by a therapist who’s also healing his own abuse /abandonment.

You can access many articles from his website
www.pete-walker.com

[Bagel]

Nice one Lillith!

Some great articles on his home page for free (click and read those in blue on the left). I had a smile or two especially on the ‘14 Common Inner Critic Attacks’. http://www.pete-walker.com/pdf/14_commo ... ttacks.pdf

Bagel

[Bagel]

I would like to discuss guilt and shame.
There is lots of information out there and I encourage you do look into it for yourself……

Did I actually do something wrong or was I made to feel like I did something wrong. Ask yourself what would a reasonable person think, A complete stranger looking in on the situation.

I want to end by reiterating that we do not have to be ashamed of the life we lived in CF or leaving. It is a very powerful tool abusers use to keep their victims captive even long after they are removed from the situation. There is no easy solution to processing the shame we have been made to feel but it can be done little by little.

Thank you BF, excellent post.

I remember the agonising guilt and shame for parting ways with xCF. Not to mention the rift of not seeing those I considered family. The feelings tortured me for years.

Only one thing could have been worse. And that is not growing and having to recognise that while my time there was helping me evolve, it was pointless to stay. Like an infant who is eventually toilet trained, or a twenty-something who still lives at home, there are times in life to ‘move on’.

Bagel

[guest]

Only one thing could have been worse. And that is not growing and having to recognise that while my time there was helping me evolve, it was pointless to stay. Like an infant who is eventually toilet trained, or a twenty-something who still lives at home, there are times in life to ‘move on’.

This is such an insightful thought, Bagel; I wholeheartedly agree. Thanks.

It took me a couple of years to realise this. TBH, I didn’t realise how much of a spiritual baby I was. I genuinely believed that if I heard and obeyed the ‘word of the messenger’, I was okay, safe, special (in a sophisticated and ‘humble’ way).

When I look back now, I realise how little initiative I had. Everything was with the ‘Presbytery’. To grow, I needed to take initiative, mess it up, fall flat on my face, and realise that God’s mercy and forgiveness are still for me. At BCF, I was afraid to take the initiative because I’d seen so many before me take the initiative and fall flat on their face, only to have the ‘Presbytery’ stab them in the back while they were down. It was then always turned into an issue of ‘submission’ or something akin to that. But I now understand that it was not firstly submission to God; it was firstly submission to men with the (false) pretence that if you submit to the Elders, then God will restore you.

While attending BCF, I was 100% blind to this dynamic. But I can honestly say that I now see things more clearly.

[Stargazer]

As part of my pursuit to heal from having been born into the CF RFI cult, I have been reading the following book. The book’s main objective is for people to be aware of leadership characteristics in both good (TOV) and unhealthy churches. I thoroughly recommend it for those people stuck inside CF churches to evaluate your leaders. It’s like the writers have wrote this book entirely on MCF/BCF.
When leaders who are in power, and have abused their position and love for their people, the outpouring of word and actions, becomes TOXIC. When current leaders have engaged in sexual misconduct, financial abuse of followers, emotional abuse, etc, etc, AND are CURRENT elders in the church, their evil word is flowing out to the unsuspecting CF followers. That current rotting word to “cut” people off who are not apart of their social club, is pure evil. A message to the poor people inside the CF cult, please read this book and begin to ask questions to your leaders. Many many blessings to you.

A Church Called Tov: Forming a Goodness Culture That Resists Abuses of Power and Promotes Healing

Scot McKnight, Laura Barringer