Dispensationalism Star Messengers and Present Word

[Seeker]

my final encounter with Tim Maurice was the following conversation.
"You blindly follow a man who claims to be god. There is a medical term for that, schizophrenia. You brag about your intelligence but out of the two of us I'm not the one who listens to the deluded ramblings of someone with schizophrenia".

Thank you for this BreakFree!

I have never met Mr Maurice, but have heard and read many of his (Vic's) messages over the years. If he does brag about his intelleg..., intelligenc.....er, about how not stoopid he is, (and I have NO reason to doubt you) he is totally out of line with Vic's gospel... for how long have we heard what a sin it is to actually think for ourselves....how totally out of line one is if they dare to question the GGMITRHOC....critical thinking, or any thinking for yourself for that matter is strictly enforced.......

[Lillith]

An excerpt from a sermon by Andrew Hay 17July 2022
EVERY GENERATION NEEDS TO SELL ALL

“Selling all is the theme of the parable of the treasure in the field.
Matt 13:44
Of course we have noted that the thing that he was joyfully selling to buy all, was the field.
Let us look at the corresponding passage where the apostle John picks this up in his first epistle. John spoke about our joy in the treasure of our sonship that will be made full as we buy the field.
‘That which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Don Jesus Christ. And these things we write to you that your joy may be made full.’ 1 Jn 1:3

We could say it in this way: without the messenger establishing that ground of fellowship, our joy could never be made full. We could never realise the treasure of our sonship.

The treasure of course is our calling as a son of God.it is our name, our works, and our unique part within His body.

We find that this treasure is buried in the ground, or field of fellowship that is established by the presbytery through the proclamation of the word. This is the fellowship that is ‘with the Father and the Son.’

Jesus explained that to obtain this treasure, we must sell all that we have to buy that field, and we must sell our most prized article, which is or own understanding.

This is our own understanding of the gospel, our own understanding of how life works; and what the way to success looks like.”


I found this disturbing on many levels at the time, and since leaving the CF and hearing about the harrowing, abusive experiences of others, by this presbytery, it only distresses me more.

[guest]

xCF hangs a lot of their ‘messenger’ theology on that interpretation of 1 Jn 1:3. And they generally make scriptures say what they want, by baking the conclusion into the premise. Scriptures just fill the bits in the middle. That’s not how to interpret the Bible! I’m sure there’s been other posts on this forum about why their interpretation of 1 Jn 1:3 is wrong, so I won’t cover it again. But I will reiterate that their interpretation is dangerous. Beware!

[Seeker]

Yep, it's unreal how a scripture that they have not only left alone and passed by for years, can suddenly take on such importance to their so called fellowship. Passed by for years, but suddenly "THE SCRIPTURE" to bring the truth of how God called Vic, and only Vic..to the great truth...anyone else is, of course...an imposter!

[guest]

I find this teaching and preaching very disturbing too Lillith.

Here we have two different gospels being preached.

Sermon 1.

EVERY GENERATION NEEDS TO SELL ALL

We could say it in this way: without the messenger establishing that ground of fellowship, our joy could never be made full. We could never realise the treasure of our sonship.

The treasure of course is our calling as a son of God.it is our name, our works, and our unique part within His body.

We find that this treasure is buried in the ground, or field of fellowship that is established by the presbytery through the proclamation of the word. This is the fellowship that is ‘with the Father and the Son.’

Jesus explained that to obtain this treasure, we must sell all that we have to buy that field, and we must sell our most prized article, which is or own understanding.

This is our own understanding of the gospel, our own understanding of how life works; and what the way to success looks like.”

Andrew Hay
BCF sermon / 17July 2022

Sermon 2.
EVERY PROMISE FULFILLED

The New Testament shows us that the means by which God’s promises are fulfilled can be summed up in two words:
JESUS CHRIST

Christ is the perfect fulfillment of all God’s promises. He is the reality of all God’s great assurances.

Wait no more, then, to see how God will fulfill His every promise.

We know now that each one was, is, and ever will be satisfied through Christ:

He has promised
* to be with you,
* to work for you and through you, and
* to bring you to an eternal kingdom of perfection.

There are times when it is hard to hold on to those promises. When those times come, we look back to a man born of Abraham and David’s line, conceived of the Spirit, who was able to announce, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand” and who hung on a cross and rose from the grave
so that all God’s promises would become “yes” in Him.

Except from Alistair Begg
January 3, 2024
Truth For Life





If you read both these excerpts from two different sermons please note which one brings life, rejoicing and thanks to your heart, soul and spirit and which one brings you under condemnation, control and bondage?

[guest]

without the messenger establishing that ground of fellowship, our joy could never be made full. We could never realise the treasure of our sonship.

.

Andrew Hay is not teaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ!!!

He is a mouthpiece for Victor Hall.

[Lillith]

I posted up an excerpt of the sermon ‘Every Generation Needs to Sell All’ yesterday to see what others thought, before posting up what distressed me about it.

Thank you to those who responded.
You both wonderfully addressed my first issue which is the dragging in of scripture (here, 1Jn 1:3) to shove it into ‘supporting’ their major teaching - of the star messenger (after William Branham).

(However, when I read 1 John, I see ‘fellowship in the light’ evidenced by ‘love’ of the brothers and sisters.
I’ll post up more about this under ‘Shunning.’)

But moving on,
The second issue was the ‘laying down of our own understanding at the ground of the presbytery’ as it was phrased at another time.

Dear folk, do not leave your brains at the door.
You will see Streetcar members repeatedly encouraging critical thinking.
Someone told me ‘I don’t outsource my thinking!’
Having the personal agency to read the Bible and be led by the Holy Spirit and love God with our mind as well as heart, is a basic aspect of identity, personhood and yes, sonship, surely.

You are told that the messengers are speaking a word right out of heaven. Therefore, you are threatened that you are being deceived if you reject the ‘word.’

Of course if you exercise your critical thinking, they will call you many names such as wicked, carnal and unclean and you are told that leads to darkness and oppression - Scripture -weaponised as threats.

I’ll finish with a section from The Word - Jesus - in John ch 15.
‘Abide in my love… so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be full. A new commandment I give to you. Love one another as I have loved you.’

[guest]

I see it as a sophisticated way of adding the leadership group (or ‘presbytery’) as an intermediary between you and God. While they would probably deny that that’s what they’re teaching, in reality, that’s what’s happening. That’s the ‘fruit’ of it (Matt 7:15-20).

[guest]

the leadership group (or ‘presbytery’) as an intermediary between you and God

You are quite correct. Submission to headship is evidence of submission to Jesus, is what they preach.

This is a control technique to make you subservient to the elders’ will and purpose, not Jesus Christ.

Therefore, disobey headship and you’ll be punished.

[guest]

Submission to headship is evidence of submission to Jesus, is what they preach.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the phrase 'submission to headship' has gone out of fashion among the xC Fellowships in the last few years. Pure speculation on my part, but perhaps it's because Vic can't get around 1 Cor 11:3, which doesn't leave room for the 'presbytery' to be the head of every man... or woman for that matter. When you read from the start of the chapter, Paul appears to be specifically making sure they understand that leaders are not part of 'headship' when it comes to Christ, man and woman... In that way, I'd say the xCF headship theology is the opposite of Paul's.